tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post3194378907724374835..comments2023-11-03T06:36:27.305-04:00Comments on Phronesisaical: The Ideologues and the Philosophical Pragmatisthelmuthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09069600766378586919noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-25982447880590888052009-01-18T11:03:00.000-05:002009-01-18T11:03:00.000-05:00I meant"how every collective result results"I meant<BR/><BR/>"how every collective result results"MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-55040871436794283192009-01-18T11:00:00.000-05:002009-01-18T11:00:00.000-05:00I see what you mean and share the dream, I think, ...I see what you mean and share the dream, I think, but I'm not sure you've described somebody different except in degree from a pragmatist in "the crass political sense." I wish you had drawn and maintained distinctions between what a chief executive says, thinks, and administratively does. Male lions could be considered ideological and reactionary kings, yet in some sense the proto-pragmatist philosophers regarded this kind of rule--via Darwin's vision--as their paradigm. Having distributed, checked and balanced governance suggests to me that pragmatism describes how everything collective result results--whether or not it was firmly steered by agencies and committees and noises from the bully pulpit; and whether reflecting the will of the majority, according to pollsters, going in to it, coming out of it or among future historians looking back to it. What you call "crass" executive behavior seems like it might mean just being lazy or pragmatic about something else (re-election?) than the ostensible question at hand. So actually besides distinguishing saying, thinking and doing, there's the distinctions between thinking about now and the long term, the narrow context and the broad, etc. <BR/><BR/>I suppose you're using "pragmatism" almost as a metaphor in the context of a governor or a governing administration's style, and you've more or less fleshed out how you mean it to apply. But I don't know that I could take "pragmatism" with me and reconstruct it at home without instructions.MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-37599479109088453882008-11-05T23:58:00.000-05:002008-11-05T23:58:00.000-05:00I hope that Obama will prove to be pragmatic in th...I hope that Obama will prove to be pragmatic in the <BR/>Peircean-Deweyan problem solving sense.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that communities of scientific inquiry certainly can, and <BR/>no doubt sometimes do, act philosophically pragmatically; and, as a <BR/>corollary, I would think that any individual involved in inquiry within <BR/>a group that is itself motivated by the methodeutic and ethic of <BR/>pragmatism is /ipso facto/ acting philosophically pragmatically, at <BR/>least to some extent (self- and hetero-criticism would tend to reinforce <BR/>those pragmatic habits). Even an individual inquirer not directly <BR/>affiliated with a particular research group can so conduct his research <BR/>(consider, for prime example, Peirce himself) if he has the larger <BR/>"community of inquiry" in mind and draws from it.<BR/><BR/>So the question I'm really asking is: To what extent and in what ways <BR/>can *any* leader really act philosophically pragmatically? What would it <BR/>mean for an individual to act in that manner if it is indeed possible at <BR/>all in any significant sense which involves "a difference which makes a <BR/>difference"? Doesn't it require a pragmatically inclined culture from <BR/>the get go? Or can one act in ones role as leader to facilitate the <BR/>development of such philosophically pragmatic ethics and methods within <BR/>the community/society/nation/etc.one is concerned with?<BR/><BR/>If this is possible, then what might the pragmatically inclined philosophical community contribute to that growth of pragmatic ethics and method--in a word, critical commonsense--in his/her own society?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-4148944540104602722008-11-05T17:23:00.000-05:002008-11-05T17:23:00.000-05:00Ideological? Was it ideology that motivated him to...Ideological? <BR/><BR/>Was it ideology that motivated him to forgo federal matching funds so that he could exceed the federal spending limits?<BR/><BR/>Was it ideology that motivated him to limit the number of debates with McCain to three?<BR/><BR/>These were shrewd political decisions that worked! <BR/><BR/>His focus will turn now to his re-election, which means the economy will need to recover within about 18 months or he will be imperil. <BR/><BR/>His approach to Iraq will not be constrained by the rhetoric of the campaign. It sounds like Gates may stay at Defense and Petraus will still be a central figure in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The pullout from Iraq will be much slower than what was promised in the campaign and it will mainly constitute a redeployment of troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, which is even more unstable and intractable than Iraq. His challenge will be to assuage the anti-war supporters who will press him to honor his campaign promises, while maintaining stability in the region. <BR/><BR/>I hope that Helmut is right about Obama the Pragmatist, but if he is, his biggest challenge will be managing the expectations of the left as he develops and implements an eight year plan that will be economically less “progressive” (less investing on social programs, freer trade, and more tax incentives for companies) than the rhetoric of his campaign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-69289693239730403462008-11-05T13:02:00.000-05:002008-11-05T13:02:00.000-05:00I think Obama also has a highly ideological strain...I think Obama also has a highly ideological strain. This is why he refuses to admit that the Iraq war is now winnable and clings rigidly to a super-fast withdrawal timetable formulated two years ago, even though Petraeus warned him that over-rapid withdrawal would cause a power vacuum because the Iraqi military would not yet be able to stand by itself -- a power vacuum which would invite meddling by Iran and more civil war. If Obama were truly a pragmatist, he would honestly face the new reality in Iraq and work to solve the new problems that the fact that the war is winnable brings with it. Instead, he is in denial, protecting himself with a rigid ideological view of the war that is two years out of date. How can his denial of contemporary reality in Iraq be explained if he is a pragmatist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-65501851852089338632008-11-04T12:58:00.000-05:002008-11-04T12:58:00.000-05:00Grew up in Hawai, lived in Asia, mother from Kansa...Grew up in Hawai, lived in Asia, mother from Kansas/Seattle, father from Kenya -- must be a tropical blend: mangoes, pineapple, and banana with a passion fruit and blackberry sauce. <BR/><BR/>Whatever it is, apparently the fruit flies like it: <BR/><BR/>http://www.zazzle.com/fruit_flies_for_obama_button-145579378694255189Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-17890715848204512422008-11-04T11:22:00.000-05:002008-11-04T11:22:00.000-05:00Interesting. Now what kind of fruit is he?Interesting. Now what kind of fruit is he?MThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02341704109256270557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-1659257425763285522008-11-04T10:31:00.000-05:002008-11-04T10:31:00.000-05:00Even this ideological socialist was working for Ob...Even this ideological socialist was working for Obama yesterday (and again today, my wife makes me do it.)<BR/><BR/>The a priori condition no pragmatical thinking can negate is the objective balance of power and hegemonic control of the dominant narrative. Such anti-democratic forces eliminate true politics a priori and an Obama can only choose the degree to which he reinforces that narrative.troutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16020298501632120830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14072474.post-29443923591108415392008-11-03T21:46:00.000-05:002008-11-03T21:46:00.000-05:00Spent the day working for the Obama campaign in Ar...Spent the day working for the Obama campaign in Arlington VA, hanging flyers with the polling station addresses-- 101 addresses!--- and then phonebanking-- 80 + phone calls!-- en espanol. There were so many volunteers, the place was buzzing like a hive--- hardly any elbow room and way too many boxes of Dominoes Pizza. Not to mention the blue "Obama" cookies making the rounds. VOTE!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com